Thursday, September 21, 2006

I Made a Funny T-shirt on!

These are actual T-shirts you can order via and your ol' bud John puts a few coins in his pocket. Mr. Lang has already ordered 20,000 for his robot army, so don't wait until you're the last one alive without one!

Evangelicals are from Outer Space T-Shirt


John said...

That picture is hilarious!

Stuffed Animal said...

Actually, I thought evangelicals (the hateful kind) were from somewhere closer to terra firma. Somewhere extremely warm. 'Way down South, and I don't mean Louisiana. Fiddle dee dee!

I have a question for you-all. Is sexual orientation fluid? Does it change like the dial settings on a radio? Can you be Straight at birth, bisexual as a teenager, Gay as a young adult and Straight at death? Is sleeping with another woman all it takes to make you a Lesbian? Do men turn homosexual in prison and then revert to heterosexuality when they get out? Can a Straight man participate in Gay sex and still be Straight? Inquiring minds want to know!

John Hosty said...

I think I read somewhere that it says, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a straight man to become gay." :)

I think personality is like a spectrum, where many people have some feminine traits and well as masculine traits. I believe that our traits are fluid but our sexual orientation is fixed. That's not to say that there are not people who will be confused by their sexuality, but rather they need to take a look at what their confusion is caused by. Most gay men I know have gone through a time where they had not realized they were one of "them".

Denial is common and sometimes lifelong. Some people will never be able to admit to themselves they are gay. I think these people are the most dangerous to our society. Often their denial turns to self-loathing and can quickly change to discrimination they learn pleasure in taking out their frustrations on those that remind them of the side of themselves they don't like.

In prison you have taken away the nature of a man by putting him into a controlled enviornment. Take him out of the controlled enviornment and he reverts back to his true self. There may be some that were latent homosexuals, and given the new, liberating experience now are equipped to deal with their feelings, making it appear that they were straight going in and gay coming out. I have never seen anyone go in gay and come out straight, so no, again I think that sexual orientation is fixed.

I can engage in sex with a woman, and it will not change my orientation, but my straight friend tells me that men who have sex with other men, even once, are considered gay from then on by other straight men. He said, and I quote, "You can build bridges your entire life, but you suck just one cock and for the rest of your life your known as a cock sucker." Hope you liked the joke, it is a little rude, but that makes most jokes funny.

John said...

I am a zero on the Kinsey scale; I like girls and can't even conceive of a same-sex relationship,

But I had a sister-in-law who was a four. She told me she could enjoy a heterosexual relationship but there had to be a strong emotional connection, real romantic love, as it was in the beginning with my brother. But all her dreams and fantasies were of the homosexual variety. What started as a flirtation with a woman developed into a love affair, and she and my brother divorced. I've spoken to her only once in the past 20 years and she in still with her female partner. She told me then that she has only occasional heterosexual desires, but that they are easy to dismiss. But she still maintains that if she were single, she would not rule out a male partner if the emotional connection were strong enough.

John Hosty said...

I would refer to her orientation as gay and her ablility to date the opposite sex curious. It is hard to know what her true feelings are by the information we have to go on. It is possible that her words are in part inspired by insecurity. Purhaps she thinks that this is what people want to here from her.

I thought a zero on the scale meant you detested other men so much you only saw them as a nuisance, nearly to the point of criminal behavior. My source is a conversation with an old friedn from long ago, so maybe I have it wrong. I suppose there is a handy website I can check the facts on.

John said...

Nothing is as simple as it seems. There is no question that her love for my brother was real and the sexual expression guenuine. But here's the funny thing. At the time she wanted men for love and women for sex. For two years they found a compromise that both could live with, she simply invited her girlfriend into their bed. Eventually she went all the way to lesbian so you may well be right.

I think that sexuality is alittle to complicated to fit in neat packages.

Stuffed Animal said...

Both of you may want to check out and participate in the discussion regarding sexual orientation going on over at Jerry Maneker's blogsite.

If a woman has the ability to maintain a two-decade committed relationship with another woman, I'd say she's either a Lesbian or bisexual. Although most bisexual folk I know about could never seriously entertain such a thing; they seem to take opposite-gender relationships far more seriously.

John said...


The fact that the bi-sexuals you know of, and the one I know report different feelings, only strengthens my belief that just about any combination of same and opposite relationships are typical for some people. My feeling is that every individual is different, and we may never fully understand what makes us tick.

When I read the attitudes of the typical fundy, I find that they are so obsessed with sexuality that they see sex in everything, even things that I don't see as sexual.

They seem to think that seeing any skin that would normally be covered by a modest pair of shorts or a tee shirt is sexual.

And then they seem to think that just seeing the wrong amount of skin at the wrong time affects one's sexual orientation.

Did you ever read Dr. Dobson's advice on how to prevent a son from becoming gay? He advises taking a young son into the shower with his father, and somehow connects this to education of sexual orientation.

I am convinced that beling overly concerned about the body itself leads some to have an unnatural fear of first the body and then sexuality.

There was one boy in my gym class who was rumored to be gay. There were several boys who were terrified to take their clothes off in his presence. It is weird.

John Hosty said...

I personally could have lived without the vague memories of taking baths with my father, not that anyhting weird happened. That was the thing to do back then with a toddler, and my memory goes that far back. Certainly this experience did not prevent me from becoming gay, so I think Mr. Dobson might want to go back to school and get his degree re-certified.

I wonder if Stuffed, John, or Dr. J would have the stats on what percent of children are molested, and how that would impair their ability understand sexuality. Their inabilities must have a ripple effect on society. Thoughts anyone?

John said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
John said...

A fairly recent study showed a surprising number of children who were molested suffered no serious lasting damage. (not a majority, mind you, but a surprisingly large minority)

Dr. Laura was all upset by this and accused the authors of trying to normalize pedophilia:

I think the authors simply stated what their results showed and if backed up by other studies, we can really learn from this.

The lesson seems to be that as bad as the experience might be the child, the adult caregivers can make or break a child. The responsible adult who nurtures the damgaged child, teaches him or her that the abuse is not their fault, that they are OK, that they are not dirty, etc, can literally save that child's life.

Unfortunately, I know a little more about this subject than I would like. A member of my family is in prison right now for molestation. He is serving ten to twelve, and I know several of his victims. One will be, I think, in therapy for life, and will always have a hard time. Another is already showing signs of a solid recovery. The difference is in the quality of care.

It is essential to take these damaged kids under the wing of a competant adult and restore their sense of worth. Their innocence is gone to be sure, but they are not to be thrown away as damaged goods.

Stuffed Animal said...


I had never heard that particular formula for "curing" boys of homosexuality before. Dobson is a perv! Parents should bathe their children up to a certain age, but children should not take baths and showers with their parents. I've heard of embarrassing things that have happened when they did. As for child molestation, I don't care to comment on that topic beyond saying that it's a tragedy whenever it happens.

The fundies are indeed obsessed with sexual practices, and their obsession distorts their thought processes. Shame on them, talking endlessly about anal sex and rim jobs! They've got nasty minds, and they hide their prurience behind the Bible. The scripture I just read in the Gnostic Gospel of Phillip is so true! It states: "Do not fear the flesh, nor love it. If you fear it, it will enslave you. If thou love it, it will devour and strangle you."

John Hosty said...

If you ever need to site a source for example trot on over to Tyler Dawbin's website People stop in and ask him all the time why his site is dedicated to gays. He never has a good answer, no surprize there.

John said...

I suspect the reason the right wing spends so much time on homosexuality is that it is the only sexual morality issue over which they feel they still have some semblance of control.

They need the law and police power to achieve their ends and they have already lost:

Birth Control
No-Fault divorce
Teen sex


John Hosty said...

Pornography was a great loss for them. When I was living in Milford,
CT there was a gay owned "adult bookstore" owned by a gay friend of
mine. They had picketers outside every day, most of the time. They
finally went away when he put up a sign that said, "Thanks for all the
attention, we are now expanding into the shop next door. We could not
have done it without the publicity." In a way this is what all the
attention towards gay marriage is doing for us.

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, you really don't want honest debate, do you?

John Hosty said...

Tyler, after you erased every single post I put on your blog I decided to be done talking to you. What is it you want now? You don't seem to listen to the fact that I think it is you that needs to be saved from all the hate for your fellow man the message you spread causes. Don't sit there and act like you don't know that is true, you are an intelligent man. You may be able to hide behind well chosen words in order to say you are not directly hatefull, but you know damn right well what cause and effect is being created. I am sure you know that bearing false witness against your neighbor is a cardinal sin, and lying is one step from that. Christ calls us to be a light to others, not a light to others WE LIKE, but to all. He also calls for us to be humble, but in all the self righteousness it gets lost. "I'm going to be saved, and you're not." If God is so narrow minded that He can't see my worth, Fuck'em. My idea of Heaven is not a bunch of evangelists doling out accolades to each other while they look down at who they wish.

Our trouble together comes down to one basic principle. Either people are truly free to pursue their own form of self expression, or they are bound by another man's religious views to conform. I will fight to the death to make sure America stays free and it's freedom grows. I can come in contact with someone who has opposing views, and still learn something. What have you learned about the gay community?

John Hosty said...

Here is a quote from a Bishop in the Bahamas that sums up what I see as the problem:

"Whether people are gay or not and I want the whole Bahamas to know this, Reno Smith loves gays, but not only that, he loves heterosexuals, he loves thieves, he loves murderers. If a person is gay we need to move beyond that. Leave that judgment to God," he said.

When asked if he would let a gay person serve at the altar, Bishop Smith said he would let the person work out his or her own salvation.

"We have gays playing our organs, we have gays directing our choirs, we have gays doing children’s ministries, in the deaconate, and most importantly we have gays preaching the word," Bishop Smith said.

"God has called us to a message of reconciliation, not judgmental ministry…be reconciled to God, encourage people to work out their own salvation…The problem with the church is that the church is the only army that kills its wounded."

John said...

The bishop is still a bigot.

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, if you are a voice of the gay community, then I have learned that there are no valid points to make in opposition to homosexual least as far as homosexuals are concerned.

Those were your anonymous comments the other day? Why not post with your name?

John Hosty said...

If there are no valid points to be made, why are you here?

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, come clean - you are a straight man who loathes his homosexual lifestyle. Why else would you want to continue debating with heterosexuals whether or not your union with Ray is blessed by God?

Yes, I'm using your own psychology against you...and it doesn't make sense, does it?

Tyler Dawbin said...

As far as you are concerned, John, there are no valid points to be made.

As far as the average american is concerned, there are obviously MANY valid points to be made, thus the reason for constitutional amendments passing in EVERY state so far that has put it to a vote by the people.

Massachusetts will not be far behind, so why worry? Marry Ray now. You love him, don't you? Why keep putting it off, and complaining that you may lose that "right"?

John Hosty said...

Tyler, did you slip a gear or something? I have been respectful to you for a while now, so I don't understand why you have decided to start being so hostile. I have not recently accused you of being gay, I thought we were over the mud slinging. You are the one that keeps deciding to erase my posts, and no one made you come here to post.

You seem to want to get me going, but I am not taking the bait. That is because I am more interested in love now than petty hatred. Let that be the way of those who are not Christian, as we are called to a higher cause.

As far as the amendments to the comstitution, it is going to be an embarrassing part of our history you'll just have to figure out how to explain to your grandchildren. However you WILL be explaining this from the perspective of how gay marriage used to be considered wrong. You might want to brush up on your facts so you don't sound uninformed; Illinois is already over, and we won.

Soon we will see the full impact of the elections here in Massachusetts. Of those being contested my count is 16 seats for us who support gay marriage that got on the ballot, and 5 seats for those of you who oppose gay marriage on the ballot, with 8 seats in the air. I also find it interesting that Phillip Travis' vacated seat is being fought over by gay supporters. Here is the result of the primary:

House - 4th Bristol (Rehoboth/Seekonk) - Rep. Philip Travis (D)
38% D - Steven J. D'Amico (LLL Aproved)
29% D - Nicholas D. Bernier (LLL Aproved)
17% D - John W. Whelan (opponent of equality)
16% D - Robert A. Marquis (LLL Aproved)
75% R - Steven S. Howitt (LLL Aproved)
25% R - Brian D. Langevin (opponent of equality)

With beatings like that there is no question in my mind, Philip Travis left office because he was going to lose his seat to more progressive thinking. Look at the margins the supporters of your petition lost by. This is the true will of the people speaking, and they have only begun. Philip Travis was your cornerstone as was Gomes, and others that are out with the trash. There is no way to shade this to look less severe than it the huge loss it was for you. It also proves in my opinion that Travis was not acting on the will of the people when fostering hate against the gay community, this was his own agenda.

Lastly, this is not a game Tyler, these are people's lives. You seem fascinated with the idea of winning, like this is some type of contest. The only thing you are doing is proving how ignorant and callus the opponents of gay marriage are. It sounds particularly foolish coming from people that try to call themselves Christian.

This fight is about taking the next logical step forward for our nation by putting the hate behind us, and learning to live as respectfull equals. Is that too much for you to deal with?

John Hosty said...

WAUWATOSA, Wis. -- A violent brawl broke out on Tuesday during a discussion in a Wauwatosa restaurant over the proposed same-sex marriage referendum, and the incident was apparently caught on videotape.

The patrons' discussion at George Webb's restaurant allegedly focused on the proposal to add an amendment to the state constitution to explicitly prohibit gay marriage, and apparently became heated, WISC-TV reported.

In the video, a man in a suit can be seen pushing one person down and punching another customer. The man walks out and then comes back, apparently throwing ketchup bottles and other objects.

One person who was injured, Michael Lopez, needed five stitches. Lopez said that the incident could be construed as a hate crime, WISC-TV reported.

"That's what it was," Lopez said. "It was a very hateful circumstance. Obviously, the guy had a problem with gay issues, gay marriage." -End article.

This is what the opponents of gay marriage don't understand. This is how hatefull people can be, and this is why I stand up and fight for the right to marry, and one day be able to walk down the street unafraid of my own neighbors. It is a shame that gay people have to put up with this because supposed Christians are looking the other way.

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, I do call myself a Christian, and so do you...and we disagree on some fundamental things, I think.

You have showed up at my blog posting anonymously, I am guessing, or someone else has been pretending to be you?

As far as why I engaged in this conversation, here's what you said on this thread:

If you ever need to site a source for example trot on over to Tyler Dawbin's website People stop in and ask him all the time why his site is dedicated to gays. He never has a good answer, no surprize there.

Someone else commented that maybe I was gay...and they were anonymous. Was it you or not? I deleted it...because I won't tolerate that on my blog. Another friend of the homosexual movement has been coming over to my blog and SCIA's blog and posting NASTY stuff.

If you are indeed a Christian, as I believe you are, then there must be some agreement in the Holy Spirit between us. Either Jesus is Lord, and His Words ring true, or He's not worthy of being worshipped and we may as well call ourselves buddhists or something else, right?

Jesus upholdds the design that God set forth in the beginning, of one man and one woman.

As far as love goes...I love my daughter, but would I let her wear tight leather clothes when she is a teen-ager? NO, I would not - because I love her enough to care what other people think about her, and to protect her from that assault. However, if she is to insist on wearing those clothes, I will still love her when she does.

Is my position clearer to you now?

John Hosty said...

We both consider ourselves, and are, Christians. I do not try to tell you how to live your life other than not to interfere with mine. We can agree to disagree as far as I am concerned.

You are going to have many people blog at your site who will be anonymous, but I will remind you that from day one I have used my own name. I am proud of what I do and who I am. SCIA was caught impersonating Gregg on his blog, not me. That tactic is from your camp again and again. You don't have to be so conspiratorial when you have full control over who can post and how. Set your site up to allow posts after you approve them and your trolls will move on. When using dishonest tactics you opened Pandora's box, and if you begin to think all anonymous people are me, your suffering is justified because of your sins of dishonesty.

"If you ever need to site a source for example trot on over to Tyler Dawbin's website People stop in and ask him all the time why his site is dedicated to gays. He never has a good answer, no surprize there."

Since you bring it up maybe you could finally take the mystery out of this for us. Your time is not evenly distributed amoung the things you have taken on as projects. Fighting the gay community seems like an addiction to those of us looking at you from the other side. Care to explain? Maybe you find this insulting, but for most of us it is the question that runs through our minds.

I ended our conversations together on what I thought was a good note, making peace with you. I am a little surprised that you would be so suspicious of me when we have been getting along. Quite frankly I am too busy meeting new friends and managing my blog to bother worrying about you. I swear to this, and you know I am as honest as you are.

I am going to allow you to post here if you want, but I am not very interested in debating you anymore. We have different and unbending views of what Christianity means, and the responsabilities that come with being Christian. I am OK with that. You tell me God won't accept me into Heaven unless I repent my sinfull ways, and again I am OK with that. When we meet our maker we shall see what He thinks. Until then I expect you to stay out of my way and let me live my life unmolested by your beliefs. I am not a child, or feebleminded, and I don't want your input. I will take responsability for my own actions if I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

I do think it is rather curious how fundamentals are second guessing God. He gave us free will, but your belief must be that He made a mistake, and you are trying to change the laws so free will is taken away, replaced by the will of the majority. I don't see the benefits in that, especially when we live in the most successful and free nation on Earth. Our strength comes from our ability to learn and grow stronger from our differences. God isn't dividing us, or judging us. This is the work of men. Christ told us that there are really two commandments and they both have to do with love. They were not requests, they were commands, and I intend to listen. You follow your way, and me mine. If we have to lock horns so be it, but understand I am your enemy only by your own choice, I would rather be your friend. If you want to be mine, start acting like one and show some respect.

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, I never, ever told you that God won't allow you into heaven. That's either an out-and-out lie intended to gain sympathy, or one of the most incredible misunderstandings of recent times. I have stated CLEARLY my position on that to you AT LEAST 10 times now. Get over it! God loves ALL of us just the way we are, but He loves us too much to leave us there.

As far as the rest of your comment, it was predicated on the misunderstanding that I have revealed above.

Now, back to why I debate. As far as I can tell, the topic of "Gay Marriage" is coming up everywhere. Just because my views don't agree with yours doesn't mean I can't debate it as well, does it? Your video of Jon Stewart from the daily that evidence that he is a closet homosexual, or is he just being funny about a hot topic issue?

And you...why do you talk about it so much? Do I ever draw your motives into question?

I believe that gay marriage is wrong for America, and that it should be put to a vote by the people. That does not make me a bigot, it does not make me a gay basher, it does not make me a hater, it just means that I firmly believe that redefining marriage is detrimental to society.

My belief is shared by republicans, democrats, old, young, buddhists, hindus, Christians, muslims, black, white, rich, poor, and many other groups. You can't classify me just because of my position, and I don't classify you because of yours.

It's time to move on from the same old tired rhethoric of "you don't want gay marriage because you hate homosexuals."

I don't want gay marriage because heterosexual marriage is the only one that is best for society!

John said...

And yet, Tyler, you have said (correct me if I am wrong) that you are OK with civil unions. What is the difference?

John Hosty said...

Tyler, either you think that I need saving and without your intervention I won't make Heaven, or you must look at yourself and admit your just being a pain in the ass. Which is it? You make things more complex than they need to be, but some of it is black and white. The responsability of communication lies on the communicator, so if people aren't understanding you, be more clear.

The Daily Show is a great example to make my point with. Although the show has bits about gay marriage, it is not a theme for the show. Look back on the last 20 threads on your web. 10 of them are about gays, so maybe there is more truth to your obsessive focus than you care to admit to yourself. My focus is clear, I am here to educate people about the evils of discrimination against gays, to reach out to other gays and remind them of their dignity, and to reach out to confused Christians who think that the way to God is by stepping on the backs of those they do not respect.

I don't deny your right to call for a vote about gay marriage. I believe you should be free to speak your mind. What I don't agree with is your rationale to take away rights of others based on your interpretation of what God wants. Site the Bible all you want, but the last time I checked I lived in America, and that gives me the right to walk away from you in mid-sentence, and not give a damn what you have to say. It doesn't matter what you think God wants to me, I am free to believe what I want. I openly choose to be gay and live in a open, honest, gay relationship. You will never find any words that will change this fact. If you think you can outargue me into following your beliefs, you are wasting your time. However, if you are trying to find a common ground, and find a way we can both live in the same society, great!

I am the friend to you God calls me to be. What are you to me?

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, I'm a sinner.

Good day, my friend.

John Hosty said...

This is what you do every time someone makes a point you don't like Tyler, ans it is why I said I didn't want to bother talking to you anymore. When you don't have answers you run away, or ignore what you don't want to hear. For shame.

Tyler Dawbin said...

John, I am a sinner saved by grace.

Just like you.

Neither of us deserves to go to heaven.

John Hosty said...

If we can agree that we are both sinners and learn to live and let live, then we have taken a step in the right direction. I may not be the neighbor you want because of the fact I am gay, but I am the one you have, and if we are to follow God that means we have to learn to be more loving and less judgemental of one another. There are many things we can do together without our differences getting in the way. I applaud your efforts to help children, and once the fight for equality is settled in Massachusetts I intend on putting my attention to the matter. There is no good reason to let children suffer and die when our world has the resources it does. We just need to draw more attention to this and show people why they should care. My experiences here will help me accomplish this. Together we can accomplish more than seperately.